Big promoting everywhere

Ok this thread is not about a specific thing / idea / task, but about a global massive impact

So how to generate a big promoting everywhere? well, first of all we need 2 things essentials:

  • the system
  • the contents

For the first we have 2 very good systems which can be used to talk about, the stable and the beta
For the second, we need to know first all the Elive features / secrets / tips / tricks / amazingnesses

We have the first, we need the second :slight_smile:

As said somewhere before, my next task will be to write all the Features pages, the infamous WHY elive is better, so the characteristics in the homepage is not enough, only a small intro with air, we need proofs, images, descriptions, articles, demos, and videos...

So this thread is about talking about ideas / proposals / organizations about how to profite these future pages / articles to generate promoting of Elive over the internet, but of course it needs to be a massive thing

So everytime a new page is written about a feature, we can use these contents to talk about them, to show them to the world

- "Does your OS does that?" -

It's a good way of keeping the flow going but we need more flow first...... actually a tidal wave would be good. Alas we have no way of getting one, other than creating a controversy somewhere, for which we simply don't have the numbers. :slightly_frowning_face:

A tidal like this one? lol, from 2006 (2006 was in fact the best year of Elive) Where Debian meets Enlightenment

anybody missing this template? :slight_smile:
There's the second website later:

As a strategy talking, since we are saying that the "difficulted" downloads stops the users to try elive (i don't disagree with that), we can simply think on a third or different option, so our goal is which one? to give easy downloads for the people to try elive? we need to found a way then to be able to promote elive easily without affecting on this side.

Ideas:

Donation in the installer: (much) years ago Elive used a different technique: downloads entirely cost-free and direct, but installation required donation: this could be implemented back, by other side it has good and bad points:

  • good: much more people "try" elive
  • bad: users feels more "upset" by "discovering later" this requirement (ok it can be warned on the website, even if people don't read)

Include a direct download available: So that everybody can download and try elive without donation or waiting processes, but then we have a major problem to solve here: if we are giving this option? why people should want to donate later? (already satisfied with everything from that version). AND: if we are giving a "limited" system (to call it as an example), people would not see all the amazingnesses that elive has, and will not have much interest on it or basically (worse) will not value elive as what it is

other ones?

Remember:

The actual (bad things) of this system also benefits on this way too:

  • it avoids in a more percent trolls and less-interested people
  • motivates users to donate ("I don't want to wait 1 hour, ok let's donate 5 bucks which is faster"), etc... this is reached thanks to the "difficulties" given
  • the articles system benefits elive making it more known (it was much more effective in the past, today's, people is naturally more lazy for everything, this is probably caused for this new social-flooded-and-internet-crap era
  • thanks to the delayed-downloads, more people are subscribed (optionally, only if their accept the confirmation) to the newsletters

The manner of getting donations can be changed in a number of ways as you yourself noted.
Personally I think that the wording and method of the download/donation page can make a world of difference ....... where donating should be the "normal" and waiting a while or "effort" the other way out.

Not in any way should it feel like extortion, however nicely worded.

BUT

This is not only about the donation scheme ..... It is especially, as @Rebel450 already noted:
Clearly not a viable method to keep Elive going .... !
You yourself make that abundantly clear in the initial post ...... it's untenable. :scream_cat:

I fully agree that Elive has to have some clear goals and then formulate strategies to achieve those goals. Only after doing those 2 can we see if there's a future for Elive to be found.

NOTE

I had already made up my mind to work_on/think_about the download/donate page text and try to make that more palpable. A good mission statement on why donate would help a lot there.

So let's give this business approach a dry run and see if we can come up with something.

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This was in my case, at the time the reason to move away from Elive.
It's not that I couldn't afford it .... it just sort of irritated enough to move on to a distro that was just as good or better....... and KDE was a better more consistent Desktop than the drop-in mess Gnome was. Talking Mandrake, Slackware, PcLinuxOs and SuSe here.

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Yeah totally agree, the actual download page is -meant- to be that way, so any improvement or wording to it is welcome :slight_smile:

As you said, if im not wrong, the "donate = normal VS waiting = effort" is exactly what it does, the stable page has the same method too (maybe simpler), their only difference is:

  • left - right sides (direction) of each option (left/right for donate VS left/right for delayed), i think that i should change that on the beta page
  • stable version meants to be cost-free in any case, but the beta version is meant to get donations in order to support the development (that's a bit different!). This is an excerpt message on the beta page:

By other side since they are in development you won't obtain a well polished result like it was in the Stable version (yet!). By donating, you are simply helping to finish the next Stable release.

(mention: @Rebel450 , about something i readed in his other post that I still need to answer)

It basically says "forget the beta version if you want a good experience and use the stable which is entirely cost-free, this is only to support the development"

Which BTW, we need to remember that elive offers both options, is not that the people is stricted to pay for the 64bit version, that is the -only- version which has this requirement, the well-polished-and-ready system stable is available cost-free (and it doesn't exist a 64bit version of it, of course)

Which option works the best? well, it makes a few more donations by not using the delay option but only if donate (users donate more when its forced, sadly, and verified). How much? almost twice (nope, not a gigantic difference aparently)

yup, sadly (and surprising that still exist lol)

I always think that the money is not really the reason that keeps elive alive (at all, I think that this is pretty clear and then, think about 15 years of life lol)

the strategies are the most important thing, I liked the other post by @Rebel450, by other side I think that they needs to be brainstormed more like individually (one goal/strategy at time), it can be less "overwhelming" and simple to reach (except some ones that could depend on other goals at the same time)

thanks :slight_smile:

and yes, the feeling is more like "deception" I assume (and understand), by asking the donation before to download it becomes a decision to accept or reject on that moment, but avoids more people to "discover" elive

not an easy science!

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Not only that but I felt (at that moment) there were other just as good or even better distros out there.
So why jump through hoops? There has to be a very valid reason to do that if the surrounding "competition" is freely and easily available.
There has to be a good reason and it has to be communicated

Yeah exactly, and that is why the next step is to show to the users (in the first "step" contact, which means website enter), before even to download (try) the system, how much things elive has ...

This on website is something that should have been done for too much time (elive needed for long time)

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Agreed, but the people have to be drawn to the website first ...... and feel the urge to read it.
:thinking:

We need to formulate a mission statement and work from there.
Just being one of many distros albeit good and pretty is NOT enough.

well, the good & complete website is a very needed thing in the sense that is where the -first- contact happens, so a better website with the needed info will:

  • atract more users (inderectly)
  • grow interest
  • more downloads

my actual idea is:

  • big menu of a good amount of features (~20) to list, with their good description and examples
  • some nice "howto" articles that can attract people on the website (the one about disabling UEFI on bios attracts a good amount of people not related to Elive to the site, due to that SEO)
  • a small and animated intro to the features list (demo-reel) in the homepage, referencing to the specific pages with their description

Actually, your small list there can hardly be called a mission satement, it's more a strategy.

The question is: A strategy for what purpose?

Try to formulate for yourself (and us) why

  • you are doing all this unpaid work [motivation]
  • what you want it to become [goal]
  • how you think this is feasible [strategy]
  • and how this is a benefit for the world [policy]

After which it will be a lot easier for all of us to set our noses in the same direction and be able to collaborate without losing energy in the endless discussions we keep falling into....and on top define a viable financial strategy, if possible.

It will also make it a lot easier to make clear why donations are needed and what they will be used for ....... define which group is envisaged as "users", allowing for targeted text and features on the homepage.

The current methods are all too "ad hoc" jumping from one strategy to the other or even embracing multiple contradictory strategies simultaneously. It's a mess. :scream_cat:

Especially a well formulated policy can garner attention when anouncing new versions or additions to Elive and maybe lead to more website visits.

Ellive has to differentiate or fade away as yet another distro.

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for the next "improvement" for elive (generically speaking, so benefiting everything)

it is paid, but pretty low, sometimes better sometimes worse. Why? because I enjoy doing elive, making an alternative system that provides a better OS, improving everytime it more, and obtaining a beautiful complete result onto it (but most of the times the work is really hard / stressing / lot of), at the same time it has been my full time work for years

i would not say "become", it is already :slight_smile: but perfection will be never reached, its just a constant improvement

"feasible" depends on what specifically we think about as a "result", but everything would improve from a bigger user-base, but reaching a bigger user-base is not easy and requires a lot of work and more investment, that's why the website should be better, it needs to show to the world "what is" elive, "what includes", and letting the people "see" why is better, then the user can decide better

I assume this is somewhat explained (distributed) between the homepage, but I assume we already know this answer? if not: elive is an entirely OS alternative for computers providing (every-elive-good-things) a lighter and faster system, secure, full suite ready to work, intuitive, beautiful, etc... so people can use it on their computers instead of their other crappy systems

I don't know if my answers are OK for that, in any case I assume this info should be reflected on the website too, but should be much better elaborated / brainstormed

I could summarize the using of donations in 3 main levels, remember that donations mean resources, and resources means possibilities:

  • level 1: minimal donations: allows to keep the project "alive" in a minimal sense, this means paying service costs / hosting / hardware / etc
  • level 2: basic: it allows to pay my full time work / investment into the project, this level balances between "minimal surviving + strong motivation" and "good living + good motivation"
  • level 3: scaling-up: as said before more donations means more possibilities, in the past (better economical times) I was able to pay @PrinceAMD for extra work (full time), which helped strongly the development and quality of Elive in multiple topics, it was good times where we learned a lot from a deep investment of effort and a madness of perfectionism (sorry @PrinceAMD :smiley: ), this level balances between "a low payment for 1 extra help person" and "good payments to X (unlimited) people"

I want to remember that the last one was possible only thanks to the donations obtained in these years (installer-module method btw)

we are now in the level 1.5 :slight_smile:

I could say "everybody", but no... Elive is not specifically meant for example for servers (but it could, and it will be amazing!), so the packages included should be much different, and it will be -not- provided as a downloadable ISO :slight_smile: , Elive is also not specifically meant for example for enterprises (it should have a more strict selection of sources of packages, removed much of them, and added a few more), it is also not designed for specific-purpose-distros (there's distros focused on security, on music composition, on using the OS as a game-center system, or multimedia center...) it is somewhat featured a bit of all of these (it is secure, can games, has multimedia center, etc...) but not specifically

So it can be considered a general purpose OS, or more exactly an alternative OS for computers, a "trash your wincrap and improve your computer with elive", with good points in many things that we already know:

  • old computers
  • userfriendly
  • beautiful desktop
  • all ready to use / full suite
  • automations / guided things (people want to just -work- or -use- the computer, not dealing with it)
  • etc

you mean the actual download / donations system? (or more specifically "is all about the donations"), yes it is contradictory mess, that's why the word "paradox" :slight_smile: :laugh:

yeah, elive should communicate (from the website) the purpose / "why" / philosophy, agree totally

Elive is differentiated, but it needs to proof that (and communicate it correctly)

I have to think about what you're saying here (and what I read between the lines) but I will give 2 major faults in your vision:

  • You think that a good well made distro like Elive will sell itself once people see/use it .... I disagree, you have to teach them.
  • You say the website will clarify or communicate and I agree ..... but the question is how to get the people there in the first place and then keep them there. .Strategy needed

For now I can only see "hobby" arguments like "I enjoy". You're clearly a dev/programmer and now you need to become an entrepreneur ... think again and put everything in a broader perspective than only "making a system better" ....WTF for?
For me? Nah, my life will go on if Elive disappears (too bad though) ...... your's will never be the same again.

well yes, that is my vision somewhat (Im not disagreeding with you about teaching), in this sense:

  • a "product" needs to be amazing (requirement) for that to happen
  • it should be "shown" (website showreel / features bla bla)
  • virality will do the rest (viral publicity is very powerful)
  • "Tesla" marketing concept already does this way (0 $ spent on marketing)

im not saying that more things will help more (for sure), but it can happen this way

i'm not ignoring the second part, but i know for sure that without the first part made (the website), the second is absolutely irrelevant :slight_smile: , and this is what actually happens (happened) over the years (i mean, even if we attract the people to the page), if they comes to the page, they sees "nothing" (too few)

note: there's actually 250 visits per day to the website

The second part is, well:

  • automatic SEO: this means: by having nice articles writed about how to do amazing things, people will accidentally discover elive
  • viral: people are so amazed with the system that shares with their friends
  • references: including references about elive in every place possible (wikipedia tons of articles that doesn't references elive yet, articles about the 10-lightest-linux-distros and similar ones, etc)
  • publicity / promoting: contacting magazines, schools, etc etc

Talking about the past since today's, it has been not for the money for sure :slight_smile:

That's where we're talking apples and bananas here.
The web page is the second part ......... you need to get them there first,

The first and foremost point is attracting attention and having a message that is worthwhile to echo or share . Then and only then will we have a chance of reaching a bigger audience.

250 hits a day sounds nice but isn't enough as, keeping in mind 64bit has just been announced ... it should be much more, this is top traffic now.

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This is actually a wrong view of yours
and
the reason for being still on place 85(?) at DistroWatch
But
now you got us, the old sugar-Daddys, on your side
And so
it will change, just watch

:omgomgomg:
:rofl2:

This will need and experience a full overhaul,
let me get home and find some time for it.....

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:thinking::flushed::thinking::orangutan:

very poorly, i dont even think that it was an announcement (more like a simple release), but it can be made (again) much bigger with an updated version

and optionally (maybe), opening the downloads for it instead of donation-based, but the delayed ones should stay IMHO

these hits are in normal conditions, this means, with the actual "gained" reputation and references over internet, wikipedia entries, articles, etc... so basically is not about having a "big news" but about spreading the name in more places

it was 26 in 2006, but it had much more activity (outside) in these times

:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: :laugh:

79 today I just looked it up on distrowatch