Elive to continue being systemd-free

I have seen in a few threads mentioned that Elive is forced now to use systemd because otherwise some important apps wouldn't work.

I use antiX Linux (which is based on Debian 10) and antiX is a systemd-free distro as well and it's very functional. So if they have managed to avoid systemd, then maybe Elive can do it too?

They even have support for two different inits (runit and sysvinit).

I can personally confirm that cairo-dock and gnome-disk-utility work on antiX 19.1.

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Yes, to remove systemd is an actual possibility, for now we can optionally use entrance instead of lightdm (which depends of systemd) as a login-manager

more work still needed to implement this possibility, let's see if in the future we can reach it :slight_smile:

Actually, can you confirm that you -can- install those packages without the systemd dependency? (try to apt install them one to one to see if any depends on systemd)

  • cairo-dock
  • network-manager
  • udisks2
  • gdebi
  • gvfs
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As I said in the first post cairo-dock works nicely :+1: . And today I was able to install all the others you asked me to install:

  • network-manager
  • udisks2
  • gdebi
  • gvfs

I was able to install them all! :happy:

I wonder what trick/hack they did to remove those dependencies. Or maybe they're using systemd-shim or similar?

Another option would be to contact the Devuan devs and see if their Debian 10 fork (Beowulf) is usable and if they recommend other distros (Elive) to use it. If they say yes then basing on Devuan is definitely a better choice IMHO.

Just checked, there are some distros that are based on Devuan Beowulf (such as miyolinux) - so perhaps Beowulf is indeed usable. It hasn't been officially announced tho.

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This is going somewhere I'd be happy about.
@Thanatermesis would you know if:
Removing systemd in favour of sysvinit could hurt Enlightenment (>E23) development in any way?

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Ideally we should IMO aim for OpenRC, if possible, because it's well maintained and actively developed, unlike sysvinit. Devuan ASCII 2.1 has support for OpenRC:

Quick Overview

Stable version 2.1
Codename ASCII
Release date 2018-06-06
Kernel Linux 4.9
Init system SysVinit
_ OpenRC

source:

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well, on a recent experiement I was able to remove entirely systemd, by using some devuan repos and starting to play with the packages (which may put the system a bit unstable, but it seemed to work well on the experiment)

I was able to use thunar, network-manager, gvfs, etc... without systemd, the result is really not different than before, in the sense of RAM usage is almost the same, the only good things is the not using of systemd which some people hate, but the biggest problem is the lack of distros by being agnostic about the init system (and debian was always been very good at agnostic parts)

possibly, or at least an extra integration will be needed to be made (if solves all the required things)

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This has been a long term discussion on this forum & while I’ve previously been pro not using systemD, I’m concerned that due to the failure of other OS’s not being very successful without it, that elive could stray too far from mainstream Linux & eat up too many resources continuing to fight it.

Not meaning to hijack the thread but as an example, those resources (time & effort) could likely be better spent on UX type work giving all who download & use elive direct access to a messaging queue that acts as a “wish list”, that could have polls displayed on the site or even as a desktop widget for feature request. Today is all about convenience so bug reporting, feature request, & having a direct line of communication should all be easier too right?

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