The paradoxical unknown future of Elive

#31

Hrm. I will think on this.
I work for the fundraising department of a major university as an in-department sysadmin, so while I am not a fundraiser, I do know a thing or three about raising funds.
Just off the top of my head, has ELive approached any charitable foundations? Oh! DuckDuckGo, they gave away $500,000.00 USD last year to various projects, and I know Mozilla Foundation and Apache project support other smaller projects. Also, I know it was many years ago, but iirc Raster landed a BIG donation from Samsung. For corporate and foundations, a few tens of thousands is not much to worry about and may make a big difference to ELive.
I will continue to think about this and post back here.

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#32

Seems like the website doesn’t exist anymore, too bad, the project died? is there any ISO available to try ?

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#33

Nope, but this can be a good strategy / step to try, contact everything available around and try all the options

but iirc Raster landed a BIG donation from Samsung

Well, Samsung started to pay the development of enlightenment itself years ago, and a good amount of their developers directly worked at / for samsung, so I assume that this donation was just the first step of the samsung strategy (to create Tizen).

Exactly, that’s the point :slight_smile:, and on such way Elive won’t struggle with the donations of the few users (and annoying them)

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#34

I was thinking yesterday about a new idea to obtain donations and how to serve the ISO’s for the future that might be worth to consinder:

*For every version of Elive (in 32bit) with its direct download and without delay, having also a 64bit version of it downloadable with a donation

Why is this a good idea?

  • Elive still cost-free, but if the user wants to unlock a more powerful system he can “upgrade” to the 64bit mode
  • the 32bit versions are focused for old computers, which means people with low resources and so more difficulties to donate, also, it is a good thing to make their computers working back
  • every version (special versions, etc) of Elive can have its full isos perfectly shareable and cost-free (good for announcements like distrowatch or other websites which provides a direct download link)

note: there will be always alternatives for those who can’t donate, like writing an article as how has been made in the past where the install required a donation

Have this been already tried by other distros?

What is your opinion of this concept ?

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HowTo: Build a 64bit kernel on Elive 2.99.9
#35

Looks like it indeed died. Too bad, I hadn’t noticed yet.
I’m not able to check my older USB disks to see if I’ve still got a version as I’m not at home nor do I have those disks reachable thru my home server. After Xmas perhaps.
I’ll see if I can connect to Gael and/or the people that helped out there at the time (notably Texstar).

Doing a search, I found he apparently is going for mobile now. They’ ve got a crowd funding campaign running:
Crowdfunding – /e/ has more ino.

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#36

Frankly, I don’t think this has been done before.
The focus on old computers and thus people with low resources is a good tack…I actually think that high resource people might even be willing to pay for exactly that option: Think “one laptop per child” actions.
Elive is imho a superbly designed OS for low end computers, something dearly missed especially considering how commercial entities like microsoft (and apple) push their updates to stimulate the purchase of newer hardware.
Elive proving there is a sexy, fluid, modern (and showable) OS for older, low end machines (as not in the latest and greatest) is definitly a global market niche, as long as you don’t make those users feel like being 2nd choice… Attention to extreme polish, design, usability and capability in comparison to rival OS’es is a must and should be possible i.e is already the case and needs continuation. Elive fits the bill it just needs the spotlights to show it all.
Let the 64bit downloaders pay (meaning: let them know) for the the 32bit version, whilst having a superb OS on their machine… will make them feel good, part of a community effort and helping the world be a better place.

Just my 2cents. :wink:

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#37

I really liked what I read :wow:, I think that these words & feelings should be reflected in the website :thinking:

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#38

That’s the sad part of all this, people complains about the forcing a donation (or also when it’s not forced) but tons of projects dies because of the lack of donations (leading to the lack of resources, the incentive to work, and even the simple possibility to make it “for love”)

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#39

I agree. I don’ t know the answer here either excepting perhaps crwodfunding but for that the offer has to have more “value” than only " just another OS". Or it could be done thru oem hardware offers like the $99 laptop, specific 32 bit hardware or RaspberryPi’s factually turning elive (the website) in a webshop.

Both would require a lot of work and potential financial risk albeit not too big.

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#40

I have just found Elive even though I have been using over ten different linux distros over ten years and especially searched all the time light linux distros to old computers (lubuntu, ubuntu mate, crunchband, DSL, Tinycore, Puppy, Macpup with enlightment looks a bit Elive, Bodhi Slitaz, Antix, Slax etc.) I found this old Compaq Armada 1700 from my work and it had some old Elive on it but without password I could not get to test. So I googled and found out Elive. All things are speaking of installing Elive 2.0 Topaz.

I was very impressed what was said in the front page about how good it is but I was also dissapointed that Elive three needs more ram and cpu. I have gone through a list of 50 light linux distros article from internet. Very nice list with system requirements. But with many distros the requirements have changed and they are not anymore as light as before. Only Tinycore seems to stick with the bone (8Mb ram needed for lowest or something) even they have now 4.19 kernel. I installed the Tinycore on this laptop first but then wanted to give Elive a try because how it looked on screenshots and what was said on the homepage. So here comes a fresh feelings.

Really annoying to need to donate or you have to wait for hours. I read through this post so I understand the need but this is someway a wrong way right now. If I would not have seen that Elive is installed on this old Armada so it will probably work and if I would not have this weird fantasy of making this Armada cool (which matched with how Elive was described on the homepage) I would not have donated. In my mind donating before being able to try is stupid and now I feel stupid and fooled cause I haven’t yet got Elive working on my machine. So could it be to make Elive in trial mode, that people can try it for a week and if they want to stick using it (if it has impressed them how good it is) then they have to - I was about to say donate but understood that it would be paying and then it would not anymore be a free product. But it hasn’t help a lot in the past it to be a free product (not widely known system) so making it pay say 10 dollars would not be too bad publicity. Or that you can get a trial version for couple of days and after that you can get a code with which you can either download with a donation or wait many hours to get it for free. To be able to first try as an installed version (live mode with cd was not something which gives a wow feeling) would give a needed experience that people would either want to donate or not.

Now comes the second thing I noticed I’m annoyed. If I pay for something I wan’t it to work. If it is not working I give the product back and get my money back. I paid (I think the minimum 15 dollars) cause I just wanted to get this my machine work and fast. I had been using like a week for trying different distros installing from cds and once and a while using floppy boot disks to install base system again cause things were destroyed and no support for cd drive etc. so I just wanted a working system, paid, and - voila: I have a paid linux system with no audio and wrong resolution and very small forum and not finding aswers to my problems. Not the best situation I’m at right now, not yet in the mood of advertising Elive.

If I would not have paid for Elive I would probably not be using it anymore and trying to get it work (now spent two days with the resolution and audio without luck). But there is another reason why I do not through Elive away. Because I have used so many distros I see what Elive is: a very unique and cool distro with a possible wow efect if things will work. So I will still stick on it but would just need help. I will start a thread and will describe what I have tried so far.

Another thing which almost stopped my use for Elive even before it started was the lack of information with installing (which I have already said in another post and promised to write adjustments to them.) And also that while installing the information was google translated and made it really hard to understand at all what was going on. Again if I would not have seen before that this system will probably work on my computer I would not have continued. The installation made me feel I’m in a nigerian letter kind of hoax and probably installing some corrupt system which will rob me.

So as a fresh user I can say that the webpage promises a lot, but starting from a need of a donation (without knowing how good it will work on your machine and when theres tons of other free systems around to choose), lack of information concerning installing (with the old system it is need for a paypal account, with new either paypal or credit card), the installing language of google translator (horrible and bad advertise even though it may have helped some to get it installed), the time needed for installation (I have never needed to wait so long for something installing), the time it took for automatic trim and polish the system (which was very cool to follow the first half an hour but which took a looong time and I have not yet got a working system), system to be based on an outdated version of debian, being fooled by keyra (first annoyed, then ĺaughed to myself, then annoyed again when keyra did not appear on chat). So I myself have encountered many things which would have normally made me to stop even installing Elive or after installing stop using it.

Nowadays there are coming system patches against vulnerabilities in linux systems at least monthly. If someone is using a system which is based on older version of a distro there has to be some text which will explain why it doesn’t really matter and why it is still usable. I will read the webpage more thoroughly and give feedback what makes my alarm go off and why it makes me feel someone is trying to fool me.

So I see there are many reasons why Elive has not gained widespread publicity. I think that going with the flow of 64bit is not a right path. To stick with the 32bit which so many have abandoned is your best bet to get publicity and in a year probably more users as well. Where will old and new users of 32bit machines go? Elive can be their saviour. And there should be instructions how to make Elive even lighter and also an installation images less than 700Mb for people with only cd install option (to have like base system with all needed internet connection and bluetooth and whatever drivers as Tinycore and then from the installed base being able to complete the full installation) - there is your on growing market, how you get publicity and how people will start to advertise. With this you will not be one drop in a 64bit sea but a light for those who seek help with their 32bit systems. It is already annoying that the browsers are stopping support for 32bit while there are 32bit machines with great specs, now if also linux distros stop support I don’t know where this world is going.

Without good resources and staff I don’t think there is point for you to try to compete on 64bit market and use time for that when you could become the king of 32bit.

I’m gonna stick here for a while trying to get my machine work and will try to write adjustments for the instructions and stuff. But if I will not get the sound and resolution right I will have to change to another distro cause then Elive is of no use to me.

But have to say in the end that Elive is very unique and polished and great in many ways others aren’t so the product is good seller (and I will advertise if I get it to work).

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#41

Just found the link to the old forum. Hope it would be put in the menu. There is a lot of usefull information.

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#42

By the way, there is a typo on the text of Elive on google. Elive is called Beatiful. Or is it on purpose?

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#43

You do realize that if you have physical access to that machine (which you obviously have) you can always get in i.e change the root password and/or add a new user? If the existing elive is still on there, do a search on the topic. Or ask here and we’ll be happy to oblige. :idea:

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#44

Didn’t come to mind. Now installed Elive 2.0 already 3 times and today gonna install it again to the same machine because of sound problem which I don’t know how to fix any other way. But now I know that I will not press the Audio Configure again because then my sound is lost. Installation takes many hours.

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#45

Thanks @Elivish for your beautiful words :slight_smile:

Unfortunately most of these articles doesn’t talk about Elive, im surprised that they search for light distros and don’t found Elive :thinking: someone should write them an email lol

A simple way to do this was having the installation paying, which has been this way in older versions of Elive (like 2.0), but this also upsets a few people (there’s a small percentage that are always upset by one reason or another). In the end, its a bit more painful process (instead of just installing fine without difficulties), the actual method is pretty simple “you can download entirely free, but we incentive the intention to donate by making you wait 1, 4, or 24 hours”, this doesn’t make much donations too but I assume that if somebody really wants to use Elive, they can perfectly wait a bit to have the download, doesn’t hurts anyone nor makes the experience painful.

Yeah the actual method doesn’t give the opportunity to “try” it, but the idea is that the website already does this job (actually it doesn’t, it needs improvements on that side) by showing how nice Elive is and which features it has (i need to demo-reel and describe these features yet)

I don’t know a better idea or way to give a “trial”, but this also can make worse the reputation with a feeling of “this is paying / privative / commercial linux”, which is not… instead, by just delaying the downloads there’s nothing wrong with that, cannot give a bad reputation for this.

I remember some distro in the past (red-hat?) that used to be cost-free but they released the cost-free/public versions like 2 months later :thinking:

Unfortunately this was for the 2.0 version which is not supported anymore (i hope that this is clearly said in the download-old-versions page, tell me if is not), but to not disallow people to -still- able to use it the donation-to-install page is kept alive, another option to avoid this payment for 2.0 is the writing an article, which if im not wrong is also explained somewhere and that page stills working too

That 2.0 version is 10 years old if im not wrong, so yeah its very possible that some things are not working, by other side in the theory the live mode should be a “demo” of -how- it works and if everything is working correctly, before to attempt to install it (or that was the idea)

Well, we are working on that from the other threads even if 2.0 is no more supported :slight_smile: let’s hope that the next development versions can be still useful, specially the e16 one based, but nothing is guaranteed since this is a very old machine and software which grows over time requires more and more resources. And the idea to have an updated browser is simply impossible, because “web technologies” started to grow in the last years in a so bloated and crappy way that is not possible to use them without consuming a lot of resources, the only way is using alternative browsers like dillo, surf, netsurf, or links2 -g

:rofl2:

Remember that if it was not by the donations, Elive would simply not exist, so yeah is a bit annoying but is the only way that Elive can exist, so hum! :thinking: Elive may need a generous rich donnor or simply paid by an enterprise to support the continued development (and it is in fact not much actually! since there’s only a single developer, crappy capitalist world…)

Hum… take a look to the videos on the end of that page, maybe I should include a reference to them in the main page: Opinions from the Users - Elive Linux :thinking:

Note: yes that page needs a big re-work, its just as another thing in my big todo list

yes this has been pretty improved recently (and my english too)

the bot can be improved with better answers or fixing them. Not appearing? mmh that is not normal, it should be online 99.999% of the time without problems, tell me if you see that again

Well, your only issue in the end is that you are trying to revive a very old machine (and this is very nice!), but of course your possibilities are more limited, in other words you should not have had any of these problems by using 3.0, but i wonder if this is possible at all with so low resources. By other side as you know im working to see if the next version can be lighter than 3.0 (and this is a hard task)

Thank you @Elivish, they are very welcome :), please open new threads on #get-involved:communication for these details

64bit is very wanted by the users, by everybody, me too… but don’t worry, my plans are to make a 64bit version with UEFI & secure boot and all these things along with a 32bit lighter (in what is possible) for those old computers, no more “old and new kernel”, just two flavours: 64bit with maybe a bit more resources OR 32bit with a few extra optimizations and much less packages

in the direction of where capitalism is conducting it, to the apocalipse lol, no joke, a change on this world is urgent like what the venus project proposes (something like open source applied to the society but with a very well organized system) :offtopic:

Well im not trying to compete, just trying to make a better OS and hopefully living from that (or should be forced to stop doing it), if people don’t use it I don’t care, but is sad that is not more known (and also bad for the financial support)

Thank you! :love: :cheerleader: :boogie: :happy_dance: :furrydance: :rainbowyay:

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#46

Mmmh good point, opinions @yoda ? Maybe as an extra icon in the top menu? :thinking:

By the way, there is a typo on the text of Elive on google. Elive is called Beatiful. Or is it on purpose?

Thanks for reporting it! this message has been “spread” this way on internet lol, now its fixed and should be fixed in other places too :slight_smile:

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#47

Make a look to your .asoundrc file if you have it, and make a copy, by restoring it you should have it working, or yes just delete the application to configure sound, probably at /usr/bin/audio-configurator (let’s discuss about this in another thread if you still having problems )

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#48

LOL it could… seriously, no idea…

JF

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#49

Done for the icon

But let’s back to the original topic of this thread :slight_smile: :offtopic:

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#50

For now Elive 2.0 is installed and I’ll stick with that for now. For the possible future lighter release Netsurf 3.8 would be a great browser cause that one is lightning fast and even though it still lacks some things it works and opens webpages.

Thanks for all your work!

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