The problem of when Elive is most active, people thinks that is dormant

#1

When Im most active (and focused) in deep development, which specially requires to remove every extra distraction of the mind, sometimes with the need to work at night to have full silence… is when the people could think that Elive is most inactive (just because there’s no news at all!), so I don’t invest time in improving the website or not even in the forum

And this is very bad for the actual users which can lose interest on the OS thinking that is dead, or just by not having much updates about it recently…

Ideas ?

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#2

Very interesting what your were saying.

You know I like you and Elive.

But as the forum was dead and there was no new update that seemed to be pushed, I really though, @Thanatermesis must be busy with life and Elive is on pause…

Everything is about perception and you are right…

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#3

Yes, somehow the forum has become dependent on your input and that is not a good thing, in the long run. Methinks that questions “entre nous” i.e known users, should be seen as discussions or p2p aid whereas new users should be handled, by old timers with utmost politeness and help (if not already :wink: ).

Reprted bugs and/or ideas can be relegated to you, either directly or through an intermediary and be answered in a similar fashion. Note: I’m not trying to keep you from answering posts but looking for ways to allow you to be “absent” for prolonged periods of time.

First and foremost, I think that we (existing users) need to keep the forums going, albeit (if need be) with simple banter, or even rants about how we solve things.

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#4

On the pro side, this isn’t a Elive issue.

My wife sees me every now and than behind the screen. Everybody else is thinking I am leaving the online communities. I have to explain a lot, lately.

Because of a full data loss, I have nothing to migrate. And I am working on a new server. Away from bare metal to virtualization … During some years of Linux experience, I am able to install a lot of servers instant with basic security features. But in difference to the support, I always trying to provide, this is my own system, I want to know it in every aspect.
So I’m reading a lot of documentation and try plenty of different setups. I’m even ask some question in different forums ans mailing-lists, as always, without any useful answer. The Ubuntu community is much bigger, that don’t means better.

I don’t think the users will loose the interest, because Elive is working pretty good.
Lateley I found out why my Elive is lagging every 2 Minutes: The hard drive is broken (the 7th drive in 6 month, now my office is moved from the top of the house to the bottom, too much heat in summer).
Elive from USB was fine, Elive installed was bad. So I put an SSD in the Laptop, cloned the installation, fine. But then I put the original disc in a newer laptop: same lagging. Without any SMART or dmesg lines. I put the hard drive on a USB3 converter and performed some read/write tests: Same lagging. Still no messages.

My point: There are no real issues in Elive. It is some kind of legacy, it is 32bit, it’s not the newest e22 … But it worked.
The userbase knows this. In this times, where we’ve got regular updates about everything, it is good to have a stable system …
For example the app ‘Garmin Connect’ on Android. The App got 1 to 4 updates a month and every 5th update is something changed. And the changelog always says: ‘Improvements to getting better’. But some of the UI changes are no improvements … As user I could write a Google Play Store rating. But nearly every month? … no.

I thing the users are happy they can rely on the integrity of Elive. At least one user. Me.

But as I am working on my own server-project at home, there is not much time for other things, these days. I hope everyone has a project, that enlighten the days and nights.

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#5

The repository is pretty active, but in the Buster branch specially, by other side the IRC chat doens’t shows these logs anymore, and again that’s the fault of microsoft (since they buyed github)

There’s more than 1 month that Im back to house in barcelona with all the computers to work deeply day and night :slight_smile:

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#6

By other side, I’m not a person that likes to say “yeah! 64bit is on the way! and updated software too! you will have soon a result!” BEFORE to have any guaranteed result, this world is very complex and nothing is guaranteed so I don’t want to give false promises :slight_smile: I prefer to verify that everything wanted is possible before to say that there can be something :thinking:

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#7

I have seen a LOT of professional and good answers on this forum from other users than me :slight_smile:

It is true that I may know some specific or internal details which are not documented anywhere (may I should write a small doc of how Elive is internally structured in the future? hum… :thinking: ) but there’s a lot of good and professional answers around that helps a lot the new users

Sounds good for me :slight_smile: small reports / issues can be managed easily from this forum (normal questions threads, etc) but to not forget about an important bug or something that needs to be solved it should be posted the BTS website, which is better to keep a track & list of them

Yeah it’s a bit of everything, the forum is the perfect central place for users to be updated, active, involved, etc… Maybe we should need more Categories in the future like “users corners”, but we will see that over the time when new things are needed

Users more involved:

I’m also concerned about how the users can be more involved in the different things, I mean, this forum may be not the best thing for that ? not sure… there’s get-involved categories but not much used, but I think that this forum has not the exact motivating workflow for that; for example, sounds like could be nice to have a collaborative “docs” website (wiki), similar to arch / gentoo wikis where there’s a lot of recipes for and from the users, by other side this website allows wikis and there’s a howtos categories for that, so hum… (maybe there’s simply not much users of Elive)

What could be probably nice and -perfect- could be a tool inside Elive where users can do things, like writing a recipe, and this recipe can be used by others, searchable like when you search for a package, these recipes could be verified by authoritative users and improved by others

Just brainstorming… :thinking: these are ideas that Im thinking since years but they are very hard to implement (lot of work)

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#8

Ow, that’s very bad, sometimes happens and that’s why is important to keep continuous backups (with snapshotted states, important), actually I have an entire external HD with a snapshot of the 3.0 development sources and tools, just in case my new development breaks something of the old or something needs to be changed

Yeah the ubuntu community is very big but very novice too

This is very interesting and curious… Elive has some automatic detections & reporting to the user about hard disk issues, during installation and over the installed system, but now that I read that makes sense that you had seen any report in Elive. I’m in fact interested in know more about this conflicting disk in order to improve these detections, sounds like the disk simply works good but mechanically not.

You can call me crazy but I used to “hear” the disks to know what they are doing mechanically or if they are healthy lol, sounds like maybe the header is “parking” everytime?

There’s a tool called “seeker” (i dont remember from where I got it) to test the speed of random reads (for mechanical disks), hard-using the header in different places. Or you can use hdparm -t option to perform a linear read of the disk, mmmh… i could try to use “dd” with zeroes to a dummy file to see (hear) if the header jumps or something like that

Why people wants a newer E than 17 ? :slight_smile:

Yeah it is important, we use computers as “tools to work”, and Elive updates (on the stable version) are about fixes and improvements, not about experimental / new code or features

Yeah Elive 3.0 is a really good result, the only bad thing that I could say it has is that sometimes pains the need of a needed browser or to able to install new software (and drivers), or 64bit ones that everyday are more common, but well, we know that :slight_smile:

:love:

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#9

I think, you are on the right way to involve the users.

I came to Elive through the translations. And the tool is great! I don’t have to leave the system, just open the application and start to work.
Here we’ve got a problem with Forums, IRC, mailing lists and so on. It is a different world.
Even Google put a ‘give us feedback’ field in every app. This is within the app, during the workflow, the user can quick say ‘here Google, this is my issue’ and work on. Most of the other developers rely on the ‘give us stars and some words’-Feature. But when I am in workflow, I won’t go to ‘rate’ the app and go back to work. If I am done with my work, most times I forgot about the issue.

The user gets a little ‘input text here’ tool, maybe with a screenshot tool. The result will go to a database, and if approved the result will end in a ‘interactive help’. But without any commenting.

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#10

Before I used Elive on this disk, I’ve got the same behavior with Kali. Because Elive worked fine from USB I installed it … It takes some time before I realized the hardware is the issue.
But It is not the spinning disk or the arm. It seems more to be a broken cache or memory chip.
A modern HDD got plenty checks and there are very good SMART results, before there are I/O Errors. But now I know, the Samsung drive is just checking the data integrity, not the timings. No suspicions load, no I/O Errors, no delay in the HW Clock and 100% correct data. Just 20-40 seconds freeze every 2 to 7 minutes.

If you’d like to handle this issue in Elive, just take your ‘speed of usb thumb/sd card’ check from the persistent mode and put it on the hdd :slight_smile:

Because e22 is 5 better than e17? :wink:

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#11

Mmh, maybe I could do a few tests over ssh (using the handy eliveremote tool), let’s do this from IRC chat which is more realtime, but only if you have some free time and the machine set up (from live mode is enough), but we are not hurry, its not very important too

Tell me a few points / reasons of that :), from my few tests what I have see is:

  • improved support for newer things (systemd compatibility, etc)
  • a more responsive composite desktop (since its integrated, which is also bad because we lose ecomorph/compiz)

Would like to know reasons to switch from e17 to newer E

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#12

It is offline now, but I can wire it up this evening and give you access. The only secret on this system is my credentials for Elive translations :slight_smile:

Yes, the ecomporph-problem.
At the very beginning, I started with e16. But at this time I’ve got very limited computing resources and ended up with fluxbox. Then I’ve got hands on a new PC and tried KDE. Around this times I’ve played a lot with mobile phones and groupwares (contact synchronisation, SMS from desktop, Bluetooth (SCO, OBEX, …). And I liked the way everything was integrated in KDE. So I’ve got my playground with KDE/Evolution/Konqueror/Amarok and my productive environment with screen, mutt, irssi, and so on. Every time I’ve crashed KDE, I could work further direct at the console.

e22 looks nice, as every enlightenment. But I would wait for the change to a newer version, until the transition to wayland is finished…

As said before, I am more happy with a overall stable solution, than getting the newest version with one or two improvements.

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#13

My actual tests are over e16, and im also taking advantage to improve its default customization in Elive to be better integrated with the overall system and featured, hopefully with beautiful results soon! :slight_smile:

Lighter fluxbox than e16? hum… how much computing resources we are talking about?

Any suggestion of needed features for Elive are welcome in #get-involved:suggest :slight_smile:

Well, talking about e17 vs e22*, what i exactly mean is that Enlightenment (and so EFL) improved a lot internally, which means: libraries, integrations, etc… but the final result (as the user eyes) is a very similar desktop, in other words: there’s not really much attracting differences to the user’s eyes, while in the case of Elive, its own customized e17 is much more ready for the generic default user, and also very stable

Yes wayland is a very promising and different future :slight_smile:

BTW will be very easy to test e22 in the new builds of 64bit, specially since they are by default packaged for debian, but we will talk about this in the other future threads…

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