3.8.11 betatest

Hello!

Just launched it on the eeepc 1015pn: first thing, conky fits the screen correctly! :wink:
Now apu, api ~~ cuda ~~... Report ASAP!

EDIT: A little "funny" thing: for just a little operation, I ran the eeepc 1015pn live straight (first boot line), so supposedly on "nouveau" graphical mode, and conky appears here to be with a smaller size than the one it have under nvidia privative's..? :thinking:

Salutations!

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Having installed 3.8.11 (encrypted fresh install) on my X1 Carbon Thinkpad: Everything worked perfectly albeit that thankfully, the network probe did not discover my original wifi settings.... Saving me the hassle to switch to English.

  • There was only a single user there but not the original first (I don't recall the ID it had) one, i.e that one (actually multiple) had been removed prior to the install. Probably the reason.

Installing the elivegtklight theme I discovered it now works fine. Hooray. :dance:

  • It might be an idea to automagically use the "elive-light-panel" theme for cairo-dock when it's installed as they sort of complement each other. @Thanatermesis Maybe add a little script (and the tar.gz file) to the theme?

Seeing how stable it is:

  • Are we going to wait for Enlightenment(E23) to have a release candidate (which might be a very long time yet) or do we need more features and stability for E16 to do that?

Methinks it's getting closer. :thinking:

I think the actual system is very (extremely) stable and usable, but we cannot release it as a "elive stable version" just because the user experience is much different (limited) with e16, by other side we can have a derivated Elive system using e16 too, but this is good in order to provide us a stable environment to work... now, talking about e23, there's some priorities tasks first:

  • Website remaking:
    • Selection of best Elive articles (doing now this)
    • Improve all the pages
    • "Features" pages which will show the elive features
    • Some articles / howtos in order to improve the SEO of the website
    • SEO improvements
  • Debian will probably release the next stable version in the meantime, I think is going to happen soon, but this won't affect much to Elive except having newer software by default, after an entire ~week of work for the migration
  • Wikipedia needs to be fixed (depends on the previous "articles selection task")
  • Other Media's and external sources to promote more Elive, magazines, social links like twitter, etc...
  • E23 true development can start for import everything to be ~like the 3.0 version

In short: Is needed to finish all the websites thingies before to start the true e23 desktop development

Intended for @Thanatermesis

Install Report from the novice – average users perspective of
Elive 10 3.8.11 (beta) amd64 on bare metal as follows:

System:    Host: Elive3811-64 Kernel: 5.4.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: N/A
           Distro: Elive 10 3.8.11 (beta)
Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: MEDION model: MS-7800 v: 1.0 serial: <filter>
           BIOS: American Megatrends v: E7800MLN.103 date: 06/04/2012
CPU:       Topology: Quad Core model: AMD A8-5500 APU with Radeon HD Graphics bits: 64
           type: MCP L2 cache: 2048 KiB
           Speed: 3466 MHz min/max: 1400/3200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 2727 2: 3115 3: 2878
           4: 2753
Graphics:  Device-1: AMD Trinity [Radeon HD 7560D] driver: radeon v: kernel
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: ati,radeon
           unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz
           OpenGL: renderer: AMD ARUBA (DRM 2.50.0 / 5.4.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 LLVM 7.0.1)
           v: 4.3 Mesa 18.3.6
Audio:     Device-1: AMD Trinity HDMI Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
           Device-2: AMD FCH Azalia driver: snd_hda_intel
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.4.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet driver: r8168
           IF: enp1s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
           Device-2: IMC Networks Mediao 802.11n WLAN [Realtek RTL8191SU] type: USB
           driver: r8712u
           IF: wlxdc85de4a933f state: down mac: <filter>
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 1.14 TiB used: 7.36 GiB (0.6%)
           ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Hitachi model: HDT725025VLA380 size: 232.89 GiB
           ID-2: /dev/sdb vendor: Seagate model: ST1000DM003-9YN162 size: 931.51 GiB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 102.30 GiB used: 7.36 GiB (7.2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda4
           ID-2: swap-1 size: 6.00 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda1
Sensors:   Missing: Required tool sensors not installed. Check --recommends
Repos:     No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/aaa-elive.list
           1: deb http://repo.buster.elive.elivecd.org/ buster main elive efl games ports fixes drivers multimedia non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
           2: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
           3: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/dropbox.list
           1: deb [arch=i386,amd64] http://linux.dropbox.com/debian buster main
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ggg-marillat.list
           1: deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org buster main non-free

Prelude:
The hard disk was partitioned with gParted before installation;
sda1 006GB primary swap (generous, I know)
sda3 006GB primary boot
sda4 104GB primary root; no home

(sda2 116GB primary free; space for an additional installation)

Installation from Live Media
Dialog window:
The question for creating an MBR partition is coming up -
after the partitioning of the disk is finished.
Means, if you want a MBR partition you have to start from the scratch again, this is very annoying.

Dialog window:
Still the old chooser from before;
it could be more detailed especially about
multimedia
internet (Firefox - Chromium - PaleMoon - Vivaldi -- Thunderbird - Evolution --- none)
and the utilities selection.
This would make it more simple to get a system tailored by the users desire
(even free of any apps possible by untickle all ??)

Dialog window:
ACPI activate yes/no ? {The hint should become more extended with "SWAP obligatory"}

  • wtf - is ACPI now again?

OK; Advanced Configuration and Power Interface
ACPI S0

  • normal mode (by the facturers default settings) in sense
    ACPI S1 - S2
  • in short: enable suspend/put on hold
    ACPI S3
  • Suspend-to-RAM - quick wake up enabled (S1 - S3)
    ACPI S4
  • Suspend-to-Disk - a wake up could be taking very long, even longer as a fresh boot;
    some machines does not even all ACPI states, but the the most NoteBooks does,
    if the machine is UEFI capable, you may expect that it will support all ACPI modes.
    There are some more ACPI modes (til C7), interested people will find more in the web
    or on their machines facturere details.

Dialog window:
Still the old choser from before;
it could be more detailed especially about
multimedia
internet (Firefox - Chromium - PaleMoon - Vivaldi -- Thunderbird - Evolution --- none)
and the utilities selection.
This would make it more simple to get a system tailored by the users desire
(even free of any apps possible by uncheccking all ??)

May be a good idea:
Dialog window:
do you want to install the Elive application default set {this is the option for average users}
or
do you want to install your favourite apps later by yourself {recommended for more experienced users}

! After the install process is finshed - an error message is coming up:
"During the install of GRUB occured errors
because of no existing BIOS partition
If you can't boot redo the whole installation and add a BIOS partition..."
This is crap and off turning.

Another thing that should be changed is
during the installation process the Dialog windows from above appears at irregular intervals
and interrupt the whole insatllation. That said, you can not star the installation, answer neccessary dialod windows and go away. If you do so, you are coming back after a while, hours or a day -
and have to realize that the installation is still on hold, waiting for a damned click - like "OK"

  • this could be better.

OK. Reboot.

GRUB says Hello (! surprisingly !)
boot
ldm greeter (taking long, by the way)
login, session started.
all fine so far

After first login I got this fresh salad of upcoming dialog boxes/windows nearly at he the same time;
deeply annoying is here:
They all rushing to the same space and so they overlap eachother...:

Elive Menu:
not localized yet

Audio Tab:
I found around 10 apps (that I never asked for, btw)
2-3 of them leads to comercial sites; seriously - do we need this crap?

Development Tab:
Asna, Calendar ?, Elemantary Perf, Icon Browser, Meld, SciTE .... mhm ...

Education Tab:
Calibre, Ebook Reader (one of them is enough), Gapminder, Khan Academy, Klavaro, TED, Videoneat, Vsauce.... (seriously?)

Dialog window:
The question for creating an MBR partition is coming up -
after the partitioning of the disk is finished.
Means, if you want a MBR partition you have to start from the scratch again, this is very annoying.

Dialog window:
ACPI activate yes/no ? {The hint should get extended like "SWAP obligatory"}

  • wtf - is ACPI now?
    OK; Advanced Configuration and Power Interface
    ACPI S0
  • normal mode (by the facturers default settings) in sense
    ACPI S1 - S2
  • in short: enable suspend/put on hold
    ACPI S3
  • Suspend-to-RAM - quick wake up enabled (S1 - S3)
    ACPI S4
  • Suspend-to-Disk - a wake up could be taking very long, even longer as a fresh boot;
    some machines does not even all ACPI states, but the the most NoteBooks does,
    if the machine is UEFI capable, you may expect that it will support all ACPI modes.
    There are some more ACPI modes (til C7), interested people will find more in the web
    or on their machines facturere details.

May be a good idea:
Dialog window:
do you want to install the Elive application default set {this is the option for average users}
or
do you want to install your favourite apps later by yourself {recommended for more experienced users}

! After the install process is finshed - an error message is coming up:
"During the install of GRUB occured errors
because of no existing BIOS partition
If you can't boot redo the whole installation and add a BIOS partition..."
This is crap and off turning.

Another thing that should be changed is
during the installation process the Dialog windows from above appears at irregular intervals
and interrupt the whole installation. That said, you can not start the installation, answer neccessary dialog windows and go away. If you do so, you are coming back after a while, hours or a day -
and have to realize that the installation is still on hold, waiting for a damned click - like "OK"

  • this could be better.

Elive Menu:
not localized yet

Audio Tab:
I found around 10 apps (that I never asked for, btw)
2-3 of them leads to commercial sites; seriously - do we need this crap?

Development Tab:
Asana, Calendar ?, Elementary Perf, Icon Browser, Meld, SciTE .... mhm ...

Education Tab:
Calibre, Ebook Reader (one of them is enough), Gapminder, Khan AcademInstallationy, Klavaro, TED, Videoneat, Vsauce.... (seriously?)

Elive Tab:
OK so far, but also tooo much

Graphics Tab: (I tickeld Gimp, only, btw.)
14 apps to select...
RAW Therapie .... for an average user with a Mobilephone - cam .... dunno...
in any case - too much

Network Tab:
the same - many apps inside that I never asked for (Transmission, Nicotine ?)

Office Tab:
clear so far, because I untickled LibreOffice, OK

Settings Tab:Installation
OK, but not appealing

Utility Tab:
OK, but not appealing

Video Tab:
vokoscreen on Elive per default ? mhm...

Elive Tab:
OK so far, but also tooo much

Graphics Tab: (I tickeld Gimp, only, btw.)
14 apps to select...
RAW Therapie .... for an average user with a Mobilephone - cam .... dunno...
in any case - too much
Installation
Network Tab:
the same - many apps inside that I never asked for (Transmission, Nicotine ?)

Office Tab:
clear so far, because I untickled LibreOffice, OK

Settings Tab:
OK, but not appealing

Utility Tab:
OK, but not appealing

Video Tab:
vokoscreen on Elive per default ? mhm...

**Pls understand me right - this shall be a constructive criticism, **
not a complain.
All in all - the selection of the software installed is well chosen -
but it is too much in summary (and gives also not an impression of professionalism on sight)

This report will be continued soon

PS:
NUM Lock should be activated for Desktop Computers by default.

CU :work:

I'm surprised you have this opinion now ...... considering those choices have been there from the beginning as far as I can remember. :thinking:

Well that is a risk you voluntarily took by pre-formatting your HD ..... actually not something a novice or average user would do.... they'd (rightly) opt for the automated partitioning thus never seeing those mbr related messages.

Agreed there, it's a hard one if you've never heard of ACPI before.

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true, with minor changes.
It was confusing me also from the beginning on, though.
it is just too much, especially if you got a small screen (e.g. Netbook)
the endless submenus are driving you tired and mad. Unneccessary, imo.

I assume you are talking about an issue in Gparted itself (not elive / elive-installer issue) ? :thinking:

can you give a more specific example of improvement for which part?

about the "unselect all" checkbox, that feature is unfortunately not available in the widgets system

it was a temporal feature (the asking about it), but I assume that it should be simply enabled without questions by default :thinking: , suggestions @triantares? I don't see any reason of why not enable acpid by default, so the therical thing about it is:

  • it can improve things (suspension, hardware callbacks, laptop buttons, etc)
  • it can increase a bit the RAM usage (should be pretty small)
  • seems like systemd doesn't enable it by default because he thinks that is smarter than acpid (or, let's say, not needed)
  • I don't think it can give any incompatibilities to have it (nothing should be launched for any incompatible / unlisted hardware)

but the point was to make a way to know if is better to have it or not (anything that stopped to work the same way for the users by enabling it?)

no, this is a feature, the installer asked you to add a bios partition and it was not added (tell me if the installer didn't asked you that), so later in the install, grub installed and reported an error because of the lack of this partition, the elive installer detected that and gave you the instructions of how to proceed if the system is unbootable (the other option is to abort installation because of the lack of the bios partition, but instead, it worked for you)

which one?

as explained in another thread, some things cannot be asked "before" other steps finishes, for example the user-creation cannot be asked before the system is installed (so it uses the own user-manager tool to create users, from inside the installed system, so the system needs to be ready before to run it), same thing for the hostname (computer name), which requires the name of the user to give a default (which is "Elive-username" )

most of the times installing without a bios partition works, but stills an error and a wrong way to install it (is a hacky way to make it bootable), by other side if was strictly required, the installer would not have allowed to continue without the bios partition (that's why you received the instructions message with the grub error report messages)

some things changed in the installer recently:

  • first boot: fine-tuning steps required
  • automated reboot
  • second boot: installer is removed, and boot continues and you can login
  • third boot: just a normal boot, without the previous step so it should be faster

Note: these first & second boot should show you steps messages in your plymouth bootsplash (boot image in background) telling you what is happening.... (bootsplash is disabled in 32bit system without encryption to make resources lighter)

update: bootsplash is disabled in 32bit systems without encryption that has less than 1,6 GB of RAM to make the system lighter

yeah, we may need to make a little brainstorm of which ones are less important, that can be removed, for example the one that asks for help with translations :thinking: I'm not sure it will motivate pretty much users to make translations on this step :thinking:

in e16 it won't, that's a feature for newer enlightenment (or cairo-dock)

only the most important apps are asked on the installer (the ones that has more alternatives, like the browsers, or the ones that takes too much space, like office or blender), everything else are small apps that can be removed by the user easily later

I only see "music youtube" and spotify in my installed system, which one is the third one? :thinking: Truth is that a lot of people uses spotify and if elive provides is a bonus, especially since there's no applications installed nor any space used nor any proprietary software installed, just a web launcher which looks like an app (webapp), the only place the uses is an entry in the menus (and unfortunately this cannot be removed in an easy way for now, as how it is implemented), about youtube music is the same thing, and provides a cost-free alternative of spotify to play music

first and second are two totally different things, about vsauce it is in education menu and it shows misc interesting things about education, in e17 we have them grouped in a "webapp" submenu but this is not possible in e16

I tried to research many education things to include in Elive since education is a pretty needed thing especially in our actual society, but is not easy to find a valuable thing about education, not even the applications meant to be for education, so I think the best is good documentaries and videos about science and similar topics

remember: Elive is not gentoo or archlinux or debian which you install everything yourself customizing every detail of what you want and what you don't want to have, elive is a ready to use system with automated configurations, drivers, dynamic settings and also an optimal preselection of apps to enhance the user experience (of course is impossible to have everybody's taste in the same place but at least the installer gives you a good percent of possibilities by fine-tunning your selection). I say that as an answer of "why X app is included", if we remove all the provided apps in elive, its a vanilla system without much more difference than any other distro

@Rebel450 the menu that you need to look more exactly is the one from cairo-dock, which uses the same structure as Elive 3.0 stable, for example webapps are moved to a subdir which doesn't makes them annoying

check the ones from cairo-dock (which is the one we will use for newer enlightenment), they are divided between "preferences" and "adminstration", like:

image

note also that they are not cluttered this way, like in the Education menu

yes, is the prefered video-scree-recording tool included by default (it works good, it works optimized, it is light on resources, etc)

in short answer: make a look to the result from the cairo-dock menus, this one should be the good one to check from

note that there's a bug in cairo-dock on which some apps doesn't launch :thinking: :woman_shrugging:

good point, but this is not possible

I already tried to implement this in the past and there's simply no way to detect if a keyboard has a numpad or not, so if we enable numpad in a keyboard that has not a numpad, it gives more problems than features (making your keyboard unable to type the correct keys), you had a point saying "desktop computers", but in the same way, there's many keyboards around without a numpad

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I asume by MBR he reffer to the BIOS partition (which explains the previous comments about the bios partition and my answers)

The thing is that like @triantares said, you are responsible of how you partition your hard disk, so basically the partitioner tool opens and you do whatever you want, later, the installer asks you for the partitions needed / optional. The needed ones are at least a root and a bios partition (for your case), so if you didn't allocated space on a partition for a bios one, you need to start over repartitioning again

Suggestions to improve this? I don't think its possible... other installers includes an own partitioner tool inside the installer which you select the label (root partition, bios partition, etc) BEFORE to partition it (then, it partitions and starts installation with these settings). This is good and bad, bad because you are (even more) responsible to do a correct partitioning, if you don't and your system doesn't boot, you won't even know why, this means, the elive installer is somewhat superior on that side, allowing you to partition first and then asking you for the "mountpoints" for these partitions, this allows the installer to verify that you have everything needed, for example, if your computer should have a BIOS partition it will suggest you to add one and tells you what will happen if you don't (allowing you to continue installing nomatterwhat, because it will probably work), or if you use an encryption layer it will forcely request you to add a boot partition, otherwise your system will not boot at all... this makes the user understand all the points, what is needed and what is optional, what will happen... at the cost of start over if doesn't do correctly

as said before it was meant to be a temporal question, but i don't think anybody will report useful information from this question... so i will remove it from the installer :thinking:

I agree, there's no reason NOT to enable acpid by default ..... no questions asked.

We do or ...... incorporate a few into a single popup widget which can be moved aside for later or is integrated into the new installer-window we were talking about.

Good and not so good experience....
On the plus All the readings in Conky show values again, that has not worked for several releases
On the negative... Tkaes twice as long to boot, no idea why. Perhaps it has something to do with using 50 % more ram 800 GB compared to 550 before

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That is a lot of RAM to use ..... shouldn't that be Mbs?
I use slightly less than 1Gb on E23 with firefox opening a single tab.

confirmed from here :pleading_face:

I must say that I agree... I always disable the numlock key if it's on by default...