I suppose that's a bit the consequence of what needs to be started at boot time.
Systemd is getting used for more and more stuff, including making coffee, soon. 
Considering that Slackware never went the systemd path and they've got everything working including their 'Dropline-Gnome', running Enlightenment shouldn't be too hard.
https://www.droplinegnome.org/
BTW:
Testing 'elive-ai' is certainly good for laughs. 
In fact everything seems to work correctly 
(and I have fixed some compatibilities in all the Elive code since the 3.8.32 / EliveRetro version) but E25+ will need some modifications to make it working correctly... but seems like we can perfectly use non-systemd at the moment
After some tests will be made ( @Hergezod I think wants to install it using sysvinit ) I will announce it on #announcements:features as a ready to use feature 
Which I think is a very good thing because some users don't want systemd and the world is divided in distros that has systemd OR sysvinit, now people with any of these preferences can use Elive because it includes both options 
Yeah. I just installed it on my ThinkPad. I'm used to netinstall and I was expecting to see a fancy installer like Calamares though what you have gets the job done. My first impression when booting from LiveUSB was "There we go again, gonna need to remove most of the apps here!" but I was given the option to remove some of them after the system was installed to my SSD. Still have a lot of applicatoins I would never use but no big deal, I can delete them. I understand that you're opting for a more feature full system than a barebones one people can build from.
Also, I installed it with kernel 5.10 LTS but even though I've asked to remove systemd, it seems that the installer hasn't done that. I thought maybe I made a mistake during the installation and just reinstalled it from scratch but I'm still booting with systemd with the benefit of having Zoom installed which I didn't ask to do the second time I installed Elive. I'm guessing what happened is when the app got downloaded, it must've been saved to the USB drive as well.
Anyway, I purge systemd and I end up purging network-manager as well. The reason for it is because I didn't bother to install libpam-elogind as well. It's strange, however, that the installer didn't actually remove sysvinit when I ticked the option.
That said, the system seems to be working fine, I played around with the theme, tried to open some apps for editing audio/video, it's just offline right now 
Hi @Hergezod , thanks for your feedback, unfortunately seems like you didn't enabled the "send installer reports" (first question of the installer) otherwise I would have received the debug of the installation which would have told me what happened to your systemd not being removed.
In my test on the virtual machine it did, and network manager worked correctly too, so I don't know what happened in your side... but if you do a new install again, you can enable these reports so I can see what is happening on your side (if you want to know what information is being sent, you will find an "installer logs" file in /tmp/ with all this data, simply use "cat" to visualize it with colors)
Note: if anybody does a new (tests) install, can try the option to remove systemd ? (included in the installer), @triantares @TheTechRobo ...
The feature was not working on the installer but after many tests it has been fixed now users can install without systemd!
@Hergezod you do a new installation and that feature of removing systemd will work now (the installer automatically updates itself), and don't worry about your actual setup, it will maintain your users and settings 
Just started an 'upgrade' of the Retro on my X61T and having it remove 'systemd'.
Logging is enabled.
All seems to go well, even network-manager .... nothing to gripe about,yet. 
I do find some remnants on the converted system (next time I'll do a fresh sysvinit install) like:
/run/systemd/sessions/*
/usr/bin/systemd-hwdb
systemd-resolv/*
systemd-network/*
And a scurry more like those related to i.e the network-daemon in etc, proc, and so on.
And ... 'systemd-udevd' seems to be continually polling.
~ ❯❯❯ dpkg -S /bin/systemd-hwdb
udev: /bin/systemd-hwdb
they don't hurt, ignore them
what you mean by "fresh sysvinit install" ?
mmh I don't have it, you have removed systemd using the feature from the elive installer?
By that I meant installing 'sysvinit' version on first install. The ones I've done up till now are upgrades of existing 'systemd' versions that had been in use.
Yes from/with the installer upgradin an existing 3.8.20.
It shows up in 'top' every few seconds. Doesn't use much but still. 
Isn't 'udev' that a kernel built-in?
mmh not sure to understand, maybe you didn't noticed (i think so from the previous convo) but now the installer includes the feature to "remove systemd, use sysvinit" doing all these things, so since your first boot you will have sysvinit instead of systemd (this feature was fixed and working since yesterday), I suggest you to try this one instead
yes udev is absolutely needed and has not much relation with systemd (is agnostic), not sure what is this process but since there's no systemd at all it should not hurt, maybe just a compatibility process or similar
just to verify / confirm, on my vbox test i don't see any "systemd" named package installed:
$ dpl | grep systemd
$
systemd-udev comes from /etc/init.d/udev , I don't know why it has this name but should be not much related to systemd since systemd is not installed (and so not running), i dont think stopping udev process is a good idea
❯❯❯ /etc/init.d/udev restart
Stopping hotplug events dispatcher: systemd-udevd.
Starting hotplug events dispatcher: systemd-udevd.
This was shortly after your fix yesterday and I turned on logging using my proton.me account. I did do multiple installs yesterday, it should be there... there's only 1 with which I switched an upgraded 3.8.20 -> 3.8.32 over to sysvinit on the Thinkpad X61T.
It's all seems to work excepting I did a search for systemd through various means including 'ack', 'ps' and also 'top'.
Top shows this 'systemd-udev' polling where 'systemd' systems don't .... so it could be a replacement.
I will be removing 'systemd' from my Vbox install (NOW) and see what that gives.
A don't have access to the X61T now.
Half an hour later:
Dang! missed the checkbox for 'sysvinit' .... again. Sigh!
Although I was waiting for it.
For me that option might be a bit more conspicuous, maybe a colored label or such.
Sorry, had a tough week at work. Just got to it today.
I can confirm that systemd was deleted during today's reinstallation of Elive 
Everything seems to be working fine. No graphical screen on boot but that's no big deal.
What I've noticed today:
The Package Updater complained that I wasn't connected to the internet (Even though I was) but after doing sudo apt upgrade via the terminal, the package updater then said there were no new packages for me. I'll check it again once updates are available.
There are a lot of apps that I didn't have a use for so did a lot of deleting (Kudos for adding a lot of audio/video related apps though, including trackers), there are also links to YouTube channels and web apps in the menu which I wanted to remove, however, I've yet to find where I can edit the apps in the menu.
I believe udev was forked by the gentoo team for other init systems, not sure if it's necessary to move to it on sysvinit or not though.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Eudev
I think a good way to do this would be to add a dropdown to choose the init system, with systemd being the default one and if users pick sysvinit, they will see a warning appear below the dropdown offering them to leave feedback if they find any issues. Just my two cents 
That would be pretty offtopic (non-sense to mark it so much since its not an important thing for 99% of users), also is not possible to do that, but also, its just "another feature" from the questions-about-features list, on the other hand is already in well CAPS so this should be enough noticeable:
Remove SYSTEMD, use SYSVINIT (EXPERIMENTAL FEATURE)
That should be enough
I have seen this issue recently too and pushed a change that could solve it, please tell me if you see this issue again after updating your system with "apug": second attempt to use internet when failed · Elive/elive-tools@c754851 · GitHub
hum... these are not possible to remove because they don't come from a "single package" but from an elive package including my .desktop files improvements / fixes, I don't know how this can be edited by the user (maybe in E25+ this is possible) but in any case it doesn't makes your system bigger at all (there's no application, they are just launchers), they maybe only be annoying on the menus
I think its kind of misplaced. "Deselecting features can make your system lighter" doesnt really fit considering that selecting "remove systemd" will make your system lighter and deselecting it makes it less light
thx, improved
