3.7.4 betatesting experiences

What does "hot plugging" do for you? I.e boot with only the logitech attached and then plug in the Kingston.

When I perform a "hot plug" of my Logitech wireless mouse in 3.7.4 64 is not recognize by system until I doesn't move my finger on the touchpad. As soon as I move the touchpad wireless mouse start to work. Hope that may help.

That's a double denial so I'm not actually clear on what you mean.
What I meant was : have the problematic one inserted at boot and then hot plug the other (working one) when the system is up.

@Thanatermesis the second "connect to internet" occurs when the installer wants to update itself but cannot find a connection (yet).

@triantares i think that your last convo was for @Hammer459 and not for @maxinou?

@Hammer459 about persistence: how you actually created it ? we are talking about the alpha versions, right ?

In fact, persistence seems like is not possible to work on iso-hybrid mode, usb isos needs to be created for that (first error: unable to know last partition size), and its also not possible to create easly more partitions on the usb media made from this iso-hybrid structure (specially from cli tools)

so then we will have:

  • 64bit: usb mode
  • 64bit: iso mode
  • 32bit: usb mode
  • 32bit: iso mode

:exploding_head:

-maybe- we only need:

  • 64bit USB mode
  • 32bit ISO (dvd) mode

the second one will not support persistence, and there's no sense to make it working for this version, in the same way, there's no sense to boot from a DVD device in recent computers

by other side, i -think- that hte USB mode doesn't supports efi (or it was secureboot?), so im testing this now...

@Thanatermesis
Confirmed the upgrade of 3.0.6 (32Bit) to 64bit is a total disaster (not really data wise, I cloned the disk to a virtualbox)
Installer messes up due to LVM or LUKS using sda. But switching off and rebooting is to no avail.
Opting for "no" (twice) does the trick and the installer continues.

I haven't tried everything yet but the glaring things are when booting (the updater should've sent you the reports around 19.00 Amsterdam time using my protonmail addres):

  • The upgraded system boots straight into e17 (which was the default in 3.0.6)
  • On logging out to get into e16, does not offer my $USER but "Elive User" and an old /home entry.
    Chosing "other ... ' and manually entering my old $USER and password works.
    *Programin former system that required a "service" to be run (own builtin mysql) is not there as a service anymore.
    In E16 menu:
  • Most graphics apps are gone, leaving only Gimp and Gtkam
  • audio only cplay
  • video only Devede
  • no soffice
    etc, etc.
    To be fair,quite some progs like soffice, inscape ,rage,vlc, etc. are there and can be started from terminal....but definitely not all.
    Previously self installed apps like guake, mc, are not there anymore.
  • previously installed Java is gone

I will not touch the install for now as I suspect there's stuff to be examined. :face_with_head_bandage:

My advice to others:
If you have valuable data or programs

Do not upgrade 3.0.6(x32) straigh to 3.7.x(x64) !

Will try to go the 32bit upgrade another day, after I put 3.0.6 back in it's original state. :innocent:

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@triantares

hum, i should perform a complete similar setup i a vbox to check and fix all your reports, but in short, answering you now:

  • lvm/luks should be recyclated / used correctly, i dont quite understand your issue btw (switching what? but it installed? mmh confused)

this is because your previous user had this desktop set as default (if we limit 3.7.x to only e16, should fix the problem, so no more e17 available (:fearful:)

this is because that was the name of the user and not the username, so every elive user created previously was by default just set to "Elive User", the new user-manager features includes that improved (John Smith entry), and... well, is not possible to change that unless adding more popupped questions in the installer for each user (painful task, really needed?), this info is saved in /etc/passwd IIRC

in short, when you have enter with your username it was the same as this "Elive User" one

that depends of how (where) you installed it, for example:

if you "make install" it, its installed by default in /usr/local which is the default local system install, this place is maintained and should work. If you installed from a package this is of course overwritten by the entire new system dump. If you installed in /opt it should be probably respected too but i dont remember now if was included or not

so first thing to know is "how you installed it before?" and then let's see if this location can be respected or not possible

this is strange, but the e16 conf was similar the new ones, right? (not coming from 3.0 stable)
it doesn't makes sense to me if is a new one, sounds like the menus was not generated (or it failed?) try to re-generate the menus from the maintenance menu of e16

they are only saved (re-installed) if you added them in the list:

sudo scite /etc/elive/packages_to_maintain_installed

same as before, "how" it was installed?

in other words, i dont really see issues with your install :slight_smile: (let's say no issues for normal users) except a few details you said :thinking:, the 32bit->64bit change doesn't looks like to affect anything

@triantares @yoda I found the issue about the network thingy, this happens because dbus was not launched (sometimes) at first destkop start in live mode, this would give other issues in other apps too, its easy to know if you open a terminal and run "thunar", it should NOT show any dbus errors (if it does, is because dbus is not used on the desktop)

this should never happen in the installed mode (so is easy to verify with that previously said trick)

i will research for solve this issue, probably caused because dbus was not initated before to run the desktop (too fast destkop startup in systemd stuff)

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@triantares Im looking your logs, the install looks to have went fine in the (last, only) reports but seems like it had some issues with the disks / partitions before to upgrade the system, I will try to reproduce the problem in a vbox since is not easy to know what happened, can you tell me which type of install you had previously with 3.0 ? (encrypted / msdos|gpt / autopart / etc)

Leave it, it will not work ...

Better clean install -
which is also more intelligent as to struggle with this outdated crab at all.

Why do you all look at me like this right now,
it's the truth :worried:

Well there's 64 bit 3.7.4 there on sda5 (12G) and IIRC 3.0.6 on sda2 (23.5G) with a (very)large /home partition (196.9G).
All were gpt partitions and IIRC only the 3.7.4 was (if at all, but I doubt it was) using LVM. No encryption anywhere.

This is the list by Clonezilla:

sda sda 238.5G disk TOSHIBA THNSNF25
sda1 |-sda1 2M part
sda2 |-sda2 6G part swap
sda3 |-sda3 23.5G part ext4
sda4 |-sda4 196.9G part ext4
sda5 `-sda5 12G part ext4

it will :slight_smile: there's no reason for not

while ubuntus don't even dream with upgrade modes in the installer, elive has magic powers lol

hum, "one system with lvm and other system not" ? this can be interesting (related).. :thinking:

btw i still didn't understood what you said before about lvm / luks problem you had

The installers offers to turn off LVM (which I'm fairly sure isn't there) and then says I have to reboot to have the kernel recognize the new config. I rebooted all both existing installs, just to be sure.....than try again with same "problem".
Chosing "no" as in don't turn off LVM (twice) the installer continues as it should but didn't ask for which elive to upgrade.
Checking in /var/log/syslog showed a kernel error but I don't remember exactly what.

Of course, it's the only one 3.0.6 has. :rofl:

No, harm never was a USER, it was a directory (the first alphabetically) in /home that I used as backup.

Nope, wrong passwords i.e I never got to log in as "Elive user".
EDIT
I retract that. There was a second "Elive user" that did have the correct password for "triantares".

This was a 3rd party program that brought along it's own installer and installed in /opt.
It's a program to report ship movements, here's the site:
https://www.bics.nl/?q=en/node/100000047

No, there never was an old e16 conf.I have never logged out of e17 on that machine. In Vbox it actually freezes when I try to logout.
Menu generation most certainly failed, I tried regeneration with no success.

Here's a screenshot:

That's bullshit.
No one, I repeat no-one keeps a comprehensive list of what's installed (and has to be kept) over so many years. That's like saying: "Do a selective backup!" There's always something forgotten. :sniff:

Except that it isn't a 64bit version of what it was supposed to be and utterly unworkable.

I've got the old 3.0.6 clone running in Virtualbox (that was quite a hassle too but off topic here) on 3.7.4 on my Carbon X1 ....... So my 1 Tb disk is getting well filled. :muscle:
Running "stable" in "testing Alpha" ..... Hows that for good measure. :hot:

EDIT
Logging in to e22 (enlightenment) gives a flashing screen and makes it unable to logout. Had to disable auto-login to get out of that one. Luckily I don't have eplipsy. :ohmygod:

It usually is hence my habit of keeping a seperate /home partition.
That's why most distros like Ubuntu have done away with upgrading. It actually isn't a solution just a show as to how far they are willing to [not] go for their userbase.

Still, this is for the sake of testing not for security. :nod:

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yeah thats because the disks looked "locked" and asked to deactivate a -possible- lvm, but it should not say that they are locked in a first time (because they aren't, or they are?), and this is where the problem is

the username and "user name" are two different things, see:

~ ❯❯❯ grep thana /etc/passwd
thana:x:1783:1783:John Smith:/home/thana:/bin/zsh

so by default it always was "Elive User" (instead of John Smith, or whatever name you set in your new user creation)

you can see from this file the list of users and their "name of user" for these usernames

I checked the installer and if you selected the "smart mode upgrade" it should respect everything you have on /opt

maybe your install adds files in /etc or /usr/bin too, but your /opt should remain untouched

hum, definitively this screenshot looks like the very old .e16 confs shipped in previous elive versions, you may have not noticed it but you had it :slight_smile:

just remove entirely the dir and it will be created a new one

but i wonder why it was not removed automatically by the installer... will need to check that

me :slight_smile: (and i have a BIG list, i can tell you)
because is the only way to do it

if you install yourself packages on the system, a lot of dependencies are installed, there's not possible to make a reliable list of "compare which more packages has been installed after the normal system", also, there's different packages and packagenames among OS versions, so again, there's not a reliable way to do it

the only reliable way to do it, is from an own added list, let's say you always want to have thunderbird, just add thunderbird on the list and it will be always reinstalled (with the new dependencies and stuff, because its main package could depend on other ones)

in other words, that's a feature, and is not possilble to make it better (the other option is to not have the feature at all)

makes no sense, every "32bit" thing is changed to "64bit" with the new system, the entire system is overwrited (except your users, your confs, and your own installed apps), in the last one, should still compatible since you can run 32 bit things on this 64bit system. So the change from 32bit to 64bit should always work without problems, there's no problem for not

even from 64bit to 32bit migration (except for your own installed 64bit apps on this case, but very few people does that and should directly know/understand why they not run)

Ya, hmhmmm....
But after reading the latest upgrade experience
from @Thanatermesis,
.... :worried::astonished:
I doubt that it is worth the efforts -
look -
all these outdated apps on 306 and then the shift-up to the new depencies, 64 Bit support
and so on, ect bla blahaaa...
Even an average user will imagine,
that this step is too big for being flawless
and will not lead to a well working system at once -
and therefore he will prefer a Backup of data and settings, e.g. with 'Aptik' (my preference, btw),
and will initiate a Clean install.

Am still talking about 32bit upgrading to 64 bit,
Just for that we are talking about the same here...
:mwahaha:

@Rebel450 @triantares i just dont understand what you are talking about lol

the upgrade from 32bit to 64bit just works without problems :woman_shrugging:

no issues, no dependency problems, the installer takes care about everything (already, nothing new needs to be implemented)

:thinking:

L O L lllllll

Oh yes, /opt was untouched. Everything was still there but all the other stuff that were installed elsewhere were gone.

There is some difference to .e16 and .e16.old but not much. removing it is worth a try.
Done that. It does regenerate a new (better menu) but that's about it.
No background/wallpaper, no dock ..... here's a screenshot"


Regenerating the desktop does the trick after that.

That's a mighty big except IMHO.
I personally think it is not advisable for x32 versions to upgrade to x64 and expect a comparable system.
In theory, what you say is correct ...... but the stupid gimp versus mypaint discord is exemplary for what can go wrong.
All in all it only creates the same system you would've had if you did a fresh install and kept your /home separate.....well maybe the /opt retainment is a boon.:face_with_hand_over_mouth:
Much ado about nothing IMO.

Of course, I would have been very surprised if it had run without problems. :ohmygod:

Did you see my edit that it is now impossible to log into e17?
It only flashes now disabling any logout, too.
Had to disable autologin for that.

Sorry, I mistaked you with @triantares :roll_eyes: :

Oooops... :omfg: