3.7.3 betatesting experiences

[Thanatermesis]

@stoppy98

I don't like e16 and e17 when comes to plugging my phone, it never got recgnized in the right way so i cannot transfer files over it @Thanatermesis

Not in 3.7.x ? I tried to copy my photos from the iphone in the windows computer unsuccessfully, then I tried from the recent Elive and it worked like a charm

@yoda

On my laptop, the Pager appear under Cairo Dock

cairo-dock overwrites it (just move it upper then) unless you are running the desktop with the composite option

@yoda

And I didn't look that much, but can we "LOCK " the session easily ? Didn't find ...

nope, there's not a lock feature in e16

@yoda

How is it going for 3.7.4 @Thanatermesis

• fixes ?
• new features or surprises ?

Just uploaded with the remaining tasks for it should be a much better (more stable & fixes) version with also fine-tuned things, like cairo-dock default settings and other preconfigured things. @zbd I assume this version fixes all the "low ram" issues with the installation and deals it much better

@maxinou

I try to run 373 in HP (5 years "newer" than Acer) but installers says me that I have a 32-bit CPU and it ends.... strange....

installer? I assume you mean "live boot" (after first boot menu), you cannot boot the 64bit version in a computer that doesn't supports 64bit (most of netbooks in fact lol)

IMPORTANT: DO NOT USE BTRFS !

it is dangerous and unreliable filesystem even in these new version, your data is in danger (i had a second forced shutdown and lost my partition, being entirely unrecoverable), so bad btrfs...

@maxinou

but installer it's working for more than 12 hours

try with 3.7.4, there should be fixes for these low-ram cases, also don't use btrfs

@maxinou

I tested first with encryption bat I have sometimes a message that says "Unable to encrypt with this password. Leaving installer",

hum, this is curious and should not happen... but i added a code to make a second attempt on these cases (3.7.4)

@maxinou

HP should do also (Intel Atom 2600N it's sensed to be a 64bit CPU) but livesystem says me that I have a 32bit CPU..... why???

mmh that's right, from internet seems like the cpu has 64bit, maybe is a bug in kernel (or grub/loader) autodetecting the cpu or maybe a bios option, curious in any case

About Nvidia:

(@Rebel450): I had issues using the 390 version too on one of my computers, not sure where is the problem (maybe kernel version, maybe nvidia drivers...), but if somebody knows with certanity that this version of nvidia drivers works for its card, could be good to know if the issue is really with this version of driver (that should work with this version id). Note: 3.7.4 could have updated drivers if they were updated from debian

@triantares @Rebel450 : im lost about the suggestion to remove the nvidia drivers from install maybe i didn't understood the point, but as explained in another place, the actual behaviour is:

• user boots in Live mode (as much as he wants) selecting free or privative drivers (since this is the first boot tests, he will know from this point if the privative or the free drivers works better for him)
• when the desktop has started successfully (and only after that, which means "drivers correctly working"), the user can install elive on HD
• the same settings he selected about his nvidia are used for the installed system

and this (the last line) is IMHO the best option because ensures that the drivers correctly works, doesn't needs to ask anything to the user, will make sure that will install the same way, etc... so what if the user don't want to use privative drivers? well, just boot with the free drivers option in live mode before to enter to the desktop and start installing other thing than "autodetected / autoselected" would be a complication for the end-users

@triantares

This time using the "migrate existing install" mode as there was a pre-existing Ubuntu there.
I must say everything went amazingly smooth and the Ubuntu was changed to Elive without a hitch.

@triantares

Connected HP 6122 printer is recognized but will not print. There's a message about a missing print filter ?????, anyway simply adding another printer (the same one) creates an instance that does work.

hum, i wonder if this was due to a recyclated (previous OS) conf in /etc, or by an automatic printer configuration detection (which if im not wrong there's an automatic configurator somewhere in elive) or... maybe something like that

@triantares

After a while I noticed brightness didn't work so checked /etc/sudoers.d and behold there were no priveleges_brightness et all, there.

mmh yeah, they are created on new user but not when migrating users (that doesn't has it), mmh, noted to improve in the installer

@maxinou

But after my first apug system start in E17 I think that was almost discussed some days ago, I need to find the thread to change from E17 to E16.

noted, that will be improved too for next builds (wrong "default WM" set)

@triantares

I think it would be even better if @Thanatermesis configered the greeter this way by default, seeing as " onboard" is now installed by default too.

mmh but that should be a good default case for computers that has touchscreen (only), and i dont see a way to autodetect it

@triantares this is useful info, you could move that post entry to a howto page

@triantares

E16 loses touchpad connection on after suspend.

in fact looks like the entire "dbus" connection is lost after suspend (hibernate specially?), not sure if is a e16 specific issue, probably the dbus address changes and the desktop doesn't reach it anymore, this causes multiple issues bettween applications like probably touchpad connection

or.. maybe the touchpad just doesn't correctly restores after suspension (hardware specific cases)

@triantares

I'm not sure but I think having ext4 partitions (I migrated here) that need to be re-mounted after resume are part of the problem.

maybe a bug from debian-upstream, hopefully fixed for their buster release (which is near) - note: try apug to see if updates fixes that

@Rebel450

Indeed, it never worked whithout swap by my experiences (on Ubuntu based 'distros').

it requires swap, but IMHO the implementation is wrong and it should create a temporal file in the / root filesystem with the space required to store the ram contents and then hibernate (this won't take more time than just write in swap, in fact), maybe a future feature for elive lol

@triantares

My current e16 desktop using " country" theme..

that's a beautiful wallppaer makes desktop look powerful

@Terry_Rosinski : I had data corruption due to using btrfs and I was working on recovering everything... also I was moving to colombia for 2 months

@triantares

To remove conky I either have to edit some files somewhere in .e16 or run the configurator again, where the latter will kill all my personal settings.

some suggestions:

• apug
• elive-skel upgrade .config/cairo-dock
• edit .e16/startup-applications.list

the second will update your cairo-dock with improved settings, the third is a own feature for the autolaunched applications

@triantares found a way to feature a "lock" in e16 ?

btw as an option we could also just improve the e16 code to add the feature

@yoda

For some E16 is may be an old environment, but for the it's the most efficient DE I have used. I even think I won't install Cairo Dock.

even better than the e17 experience on elive 3.0 stable ? it is really well featured! (but may feel a bit slower)

@Franc

there is not the "resize with keyboard" optio

added "alt + f8" for that, if you apug and restart desktop configurations
btw e16 allows you to have windows (bigger than screen) shared between their multiple desktops, so you can go back/from them and reach the other window elements

@Rebel450

Confirmed.

mmh, but i dont see the relation of these window sizes with e16 / elive, they -should- be already small (autoconfigurations for font sizes)

@Franc

A question: In order to, in the same time, fit this "new" installation with reiser4 (originally on ext4), what should be the best way for doing it..?

check the comments in the 3.7.4 betatesting page, but if you want to move, you should do a clean install and then copy the files

[Thanatermesis]

Moving! 3.7.4 betatesting experiences

[Rebel450]

@Thanatermesis

but i dont see the relation of these window sizes with e16

windows are too big in size, not only on small displays;
if needed I could forward a screenshot (?)

@Thanatermesis

im lost about the suggestion to remove the nvidia drivers from install

@triantares and me, @Rebel450 meant -
remove the whole (Nvidia) alien driver install OPTION from the installer at all -
(even on Debian it's already a desaster to find and install the correct driver variant for the Nvidia cards!)

The by default installed video driver (noveau) works fine in nearly all cases,
so there is need to struggle with hundreds of possible video options -
THIS IS NOT OUR BAG OF POTATOES -
= the effected users can install their alien drivers by themselves better,
after the main install process and they are on a well running system!

The target : Sytem is running with acceptable results on video

• is already reached - without fighting with Properitary! drivers - after the system install !!!

@Thanatermesis

user boots in Live mode (as much as he wants) selecting free or privative drivers

Sorry, but these are (outdated) useless efforts,
which leads in many cases to a system with showing just the prompt....

@Thanatermesis

when the desktop has started successfully (and only after that, which means "drivers correctly working"),

= EXACTLY -- why spoil everything with risky optional drivers ?!??!!! = NO

@Thanatermesis

the same settings he selected about his nvidia are used for the installed system

just leave it behind - or you want to become also a Nvidia driver specialist?!
Even Debian sucks here badly - leave it...
and - these driver are NON_FREE drivers at all - so why the f**k ?!

Listen to @triantares and @Rebel450, and , and , and , and .........

[Thanatermesis]

@Rebel450

if needed I could forward a screenshot (?)

Thanatermesis:

yes, make a screenshot so i dont understand why they should be big, so they should be auto configured to best fit

@Rebel450

The by default installed video driver (noveau) works fine in nearly all cases ,

nope, only -some- cards, users will always need to have the nvidia privative drivers option available and easy to install, also, multiple screens doesn't works with nouveau, only with privative

@Rebel450

remove the whole (Nvidia) alien driver install OPTION from the installer at all -

i still don't understand the wanting to remove a feature, which is entirely optional and asks the user "do you want to use it?"

@Rebel450

= the effected users can install their alien drivers by themselves better,

that's what the live mode provides, in an easy and guided way that doesn't needs users to know how to use the terminal or similar stuff, also, installling these drivers by their own is extremely difficult for most of users, it requires to be out of X and know some terminal things, also since the live and installed mode already boots in X there's no way to "not be in X"

if im correct, @yoda needs the privative ones, he should understand how good is to have this option this way, to not include these "do you want to use them" options will be extremely difficult for users to install them

and even worse: it will make lots of computers to simply not be able to run elive at all (computers which requires the privative ones)

i dont see any reason of why removing this optional (needed) feature should be an improvement

[yoda]

@Thanatermesis

if im correct, @yoda needs the privative ones, he should understand how good is to have this option this way, to not include these "do you want to use them" options will be extremely difficult for users to install them

Nope I don,t need them
It's not me

[triantares]

@Thanatermesis

mmh but that should be a good default case for computers that has touchscreen (only), and i dont see a way to autodetect it

What I'm saying is: It's a minor adjustment to the greeter.conf (as "onboard" is allready installed) and could also be very helpfull.
Not only for touchscreens but wacom interfaces too or just with the mouse. On top it's a life-saver if you just spilt coffee or coke over your keyboard .....or if not sure you picked the right layout, before.
I don't mind adding a HowTo but putting it in the greeter.conf by default is alot easier.
As for detecting, which I still don't deem nescesary: How about "xinput", it should be running by the time one reaches the greeter screen?

@Thanatermesis

in fact looks like the entire "dbus" connection is lost after suspend (hibernate specially?), not sure if is a e16 specific issue,

It looks like dbus to me, I lose the mouse in e17/22 too. Alas I cannot recreate this thing consistently ..... it just sometimes happens. I've been waiting for it too happen again, so I can try out some things but it just doesn' t come up.

@Thanatermesis

IMHO the implementation is wrong and it should create a temporal file in the / root filesystem with the space required to store the ram contents

Wouldn't this only work if your partitions are not encrypted?

@Thanatermesis

btw as an option we could also just improve the e16 code to add the feature

I was looking to get ALT,CTRL+L to work but haven't found a way yet, without using gnome-screensaver. How does the one in e22 work? i.e can' t that be implemented in e16?
On top I have some issues with the "restart" button on cairo dock......systemd doesn' t want to stop before waiting for power-management is stopped, which sometimes takes quite long .... up to 5 min,

As to the nvidia drivers:

@Thanatermesis

• the same settings he selected about his nvidia are used for the installed system

and this (the last line) is IMHO the best option because ensures that the drivers correctly works,

This assumption is not entirely true. In some cases this leads to a black screen on reboot. That's what initially happened with my Haswell-ULT on 3.7.1 and again with QubesOs too.
All in all, it's just a matter of choice to offer the drivers in Live mode or later after Install. Either one has their pros and cons but I can see why you prefer all options available in live mode.
My thought was: When in doubt, use vesa/framebuffer and tackle difficult cards in a later stage or here through the forums or ..keira, of course.

[Thanatermesis]

@triantares

Wouldn't this only work if your partitions are not encrypted?

it also works when there's encryption: system boots -> ask for unlock pass -> checks swap for restoring hibernation -> restore system

@triantares

I was looking to get ALT,CTRL+L to work but haven't found a way yet, without using gnome-screensaver. How does the one in e22 work? i.e can' t that be implemented in e16?

not really, in e17 / e22 it works because uses an emodule for that, the EFL libs gives a lot of possibilities but e16 doesn't use EFL, they was created after e16

@triantares

This assumption is not entirely true. In some cases this leads to a black screen on reboot. That's what initially happened with my Haswell-ULT on 3.7.1 and again with QubesOs too.

then we are talking about a different bug... if works on live it should work on installed, the same drivers are used, etc..
if you can reproduce it, please tell me so we will check why they not works
and yes, in such case is an important bug (unable to boot the installed system for these nvidia cases)

[triantares]

@Thanatermesis

not really, in e17 / e22 it works because uses an emodule for that, the EFL libs gives a lot of possibilities but e16 doesn't use EFL, they was created after e16

Then maybe we write one ourselves ....... or we hit on the e16 programmer and ask him.

How hard can it be?
On "lock-screen"; bring up fullscreen-covering image; if on mouse over; require password to remove; else do nothing

@Thanatermesis

hen we are talking about a different bug...

Yes, we are!
I was refering to stuff with my Haswell on-chip card with 3.0.6 (not 3.7.1 ---- my bad, sorry) since 3.7 everything is fine.

Alas I don't have nvidia card machines ......maybe @Rebel450 can do some testing?

.

[Thanatermesis]

@triantares

Then maybe we write one ourselves ....... or we hit on the e16 programmer and ask him.

well, i will ask him, since its already a needed thing, maybe he has some hints

@triantares

How hard can it be?
On "lock-screen"; bring up fullscreen-covering image; if on mouse over; require password to remove; else do nothing

yep something like that
you should read the e16 code to have an idea
examples:
https://git.enlightenment.org/e16/e16.git/tree/src/dialog.c
https://git.enlightenment.org/e16/e16.git/tree/src/alert.c

[Rebel450]

@triantares

.maybe @Rebel450 can do some testing?

Ya, he will...

[triantares]

@Thanatermesis

yep something like that
you should read the e16 code to have an idea
examples:
https://git.enlightenment.org/e16/e16.git/tree/src/dialog.c
https://git.enlightenment.org/e16/e16.git/tree/src/alert.c

That's way to intricate anf long for me. Half way through I've allready forgotten the initial defs.
All I'll do is break everything.
Interesting all the same ..... maybe I'll have a bright moment and see the [en]light[enment].

[Rebel450]

@triantares

maybe I'll have a bright moment and see the [en] light [enment]

& @Thanatermesis

I Just picked "a good AMD" Desktop PC from a client,
it will become an additional 'test-box'

(until yet I had Intels only)

[triantares]

@triantares

in fact looks like the entire "dbus" connection is lost after suspend (hibernate specially?), not sure if is a e16 specific issue,

It looks like dbus to me, I lose the mouse in e17/22 too. Alas I cannot recreate this thing consistently ..... it just sometimes happens. I've been waiting for it too happen again, so I can try out some things but it just doesn' t come up.

@Thanatermesis
It just happened!
Waking took a very long time ..... I just had a black screen.
CTRL,ALT +F1 took me to tty1 where I did some reading of logs. Tried F7 again and screen came up.
But no touchpad, touchscreen works though.
Tried a few things but removing and adding the module "psmouse" did the trick.
That was:
"sudo modprobe -r psmouse" to remove it
and then
"sudo modprobe psmouse"

[Thanatermesis]

@triantares

Interesting all the same ..... maybe I'll have a bright moment and see the [en] light [enment].

well, e16 has a much different code than e17 & newer (because of efl), which is much more enjoyable to use (easier, faster, powerful, easier to understand/read, etc)

Make a complete E17 module in 10 minutes

[Thanatermesis]

@triantares

CTRL,ALT +F1 took me to tty1 where I did some reading of logs. Tried F7 again and screen came up.

mmh, but this sounds more like a hardware-specific issue, like having difficulties to restore the hardware things, im pretty sure it only happens on that machine, this should be probably fixed with newer versionf of laptop-module-tools or acpi packages

about dbus, you can see that by running things from terminal, like launching thunar (probably), you will have dbus errors, i have not tested this much btw

alright, the screenshot shows some suspend difficulties, maybe update your bios firmware?

or also, try to google for "machine model + suspend", you would probably found some acpi / udev rules to add for recover correctly from suspension (like your commands)

[triantares]

@Thanatermesis

newer versionf of laptop-module-tools or acpi packages

This could well be the case.
I have some strange behaviour on "shutdown" and "reboot" from the cairo dock too.
The machine stops short when shutting down, systemd waiting for a/some power management tools to shutdown. Giving it 5 min wait time. I can shorten the wait time, I know ..... but usually I don't wait and force it to stop through the power button.

[yoda]

I Think I have the same " long delay / count down " when shutting down.

I Will pay more attention to se if it's at every shutdown

[triantares]

@yoda

Think I have the same " long delay / count down " when shutting down.

The wait time changes but try shutting down from console. I.e hit CTRL,ALT + F1 to get to TTY1 and then CTRL,ALT + DEL.

[Thanatermesis]

@triantares

I have some strange behaviour on "shutdown" and "reboot" from the cairo dock too.

i think that it doesn't works good (maybe we need a better configuration for it, to set by default), but in any case i dont use it at all, i have already them in the e16 menus

[triantares]

@Thanatermesis

i think that it doesn't works good (maybe we need a better configuration for it, to set by default), but in any case i dont use it at all, i have already them in the e16 menus

Aye, at least that one has a real " logout" option, which cairo-dock hasn't.